Major League Baseball has officially reached it's All-Star Break and these surprising Pirates are taking our city by storm. The Bucs have amassed a tremendous 47-43 record, their best at the break since 1992. The Pirates will also sent 3 representatives to the All-Star game this year, the most since 1990. If anybody could honestly say they saw this coming, they are likely kidding themselves. Sure, the Bucs were certainly going to improve from the 57-105 record of 2010, but I find it hard to believe anybody could have predicted this large of a turnaround. While the starting pitching has carried the load and Neil Walker has driven in a sick amount of runs, the cornerstone of this team is it's centerfielder, Andrew McCutchen.
Cutch is an All-Star whether Bruce Bochy wanted to admit it or not. Eventually, he got it right, but it wasn't without it's fair share of belly aching and rightfully so. Andrew McCutchen is one of the top 5 outfielders in the National League. Through 90 games, he is hitting .291 with 14 HR and 54 RBI, 54 Runs, and 15 SB. These numbers rank well amongst his peers, but many people have asked this question of Cutch: is he a Five Tool Player?
A Five Tool player is a guy who can hit for average, hit for power, run the bases, field his position proficiently, and has a top notch throwing arm. Without even giving it much thought, he clearly has the first Four Tools. The league average for batting average is .261. Cutch's .291 is 30 points higher and ranks 22nd overall in the NL, 9th among OF. His 14 HR through 90 games translates to 25 over 162 games and without question he could hit 30 Home Runs in this league. He is also on pace to steal 27 bases this season and his career average of 32 SB per 162 games player proves he can be a 30/30 guy. In terms of fielding, anybody who has watched this team consistently knows how many triples and doubles Cutch has cut off and his defensive WAR (Wins Above Replacement) is currently 1.1 right now. proving he is a plus outfielder.
The only question about Cutch is his throwing arm. Some people question his arm strength, others his accuracy and/or decision making. Personally, I don't think his arm strength is the issue as I have actually seen him be too strong on his throws from time to time. I believe it is his throwing accuracy that is a bit lacking. Either way, there is mutual agreement that if there is anything holding Cutch back from being a Five Tool Player it is indeed his throwing arm, but it is something he can work on. He is still fairly young and has already developed those other four tools.
Thinking out loud, though, does it really matter? Sure it would be nice if he could rack up some more outfield assists. But his overall ability, be it 4 Tool or 5 Tool, is still that of a rising talent bursting towards Super Stardom. Finally being named to the All Star is a well-deserved feather in his cap, but I didn't need Bruce Bochy's approval to know Andrew McCutchen is an All-Star. The best part of McCutchen's career at this point is that, as good as he's been, he seems to be getting better.
Miss some of you guys on the Smiz Blog the last couple days.
ReplyDeleteIt's getting harder and harder to spout only venom, eh?
Hey Fishie: Believe it or not, we enjoy watching winning baseball as well. Just not so sure about the ownership's commitment to holding it together. You and your ilk seem to have no problem spewing venom and lies everywhere you go. So continue on. It makes the conversations more interesting, if not more enlightening.
ReplyDeleteSome olive branch you have there. I knew you weren't serious, that is why I didn't believe the crap you spouted several weeks ago, Dog.
ReplyDeleteAnd anyway, I pretty much retired from posting there awhile ago though I still read. Most of the posts are just you and your many profiles congratulating each other on great posts. It got old a long time ago.
Real fans stay with the team through good and bad. Makes winning even more sweeter to have been a fan through the lean times.
ReplyDeleteWe don't want you bandwagoners and fairweather fans on our bus anyways.
Lies? Where and when did I do that?
See!!! exactly what I said before. I know a douchebag a-hole when I see one. Olive branch, my ass.
ReplyDeleteNow are you going to whine about getting attacked?
No more whining here and I haven't posted in several weeks.
ReplyDeleteIf you must attack for me making an observation, so be it. I simply stated that I missed some of you guys posting on SmizBlog. It was entertaining if nothing else. It was not an attack whatsoever. Don't get so defensive. You're acting like me a few weeks ago.
And I'm not Dog, PM, WVkeeper or any of the other Dog alteregos. Just a fan who loves the Buccos, win or lose.
Fish "Real fans stay with the team through good and bad. Makes winning even more sweeter to have been a fan through the lean times. "
ReplyDeleteDude, how do judge a real fan? One that accepts all shovel fed crap from Greg Brown and Frank Coonelly as Gospel Feed Truth?
You want my "fan credentials"?
I cried as an 8 year old boy when Sid Bream happened.
As a young kid, the first team I learned to 'hate' was the New York Mets, I even convinced a little league coach we needed to change our name when that was his choice for us.
I was devastated when the Bucs gave up on my favorite guy from that 92 team, Tim Wakefield and he went on to have so much success in Beantown.
I have a certificate of attendance for the first game ever played between the Florida Marlins and the Pittsburgh Pirates. One team has gone on to win two world series titles since that game. And it ain't my team.
I was in tears again when I went to what I thought would be the final game in Pirates History in 1996 before Kevin McClatchy came in and saved baseball in this town.
I railed and raged as an angst ridden teen against the unfair free agency rules in baseball and how it killed small market franchises in the late 90s.
I was overjoyed to enter a new era of Pirate Baseball when PNC Park opened its doors, thinking that the team would finally be ready to step up and compete with the big boys financially. We see how that worked out.
As a freshman in college I was ready to get on board with a team that featured Kenny Lofton, Reggie Sanders, and Aramis Ramirez as a possible stepping stone to future great things. Then the bottom was pulled out on me, and ARAM and Lofton were dumped off for a bucket of baseballs. That my friend, is when my rage about baseball finances turned inward into a shadowy group that had been sinking its claws into the clubs ownership control called the Nutting family.
So you can disagree with me on a ton of shit on this blog, but don’t go calling me a bandwagoner or fair-weather. And believe me, I want no part of your bus, train, or any public transit system you currently are riding.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAs for us not being "real" fans in your eyes, who are you to judge? But since you have, I will judge you back.
ReplyDeleteI my eyes, anyone who has sat back and let this team become the laughing stock of MLB for 18 years is no "real" fan. You didn't care enough to complain, now all of a sudden you are a big supporter? Talk about bandwagon.
So finally after 18 years it looks like the Pirates might finish the year over .500 so you and twits like you are crowing "I told you so." Holy shit dude, after the worst losing streak in the history of North American professional sports they were due to win sometime. It was just the law of averages.
I have no problem with the players and this manager, I have a BIG problem with the Nutting family, FC, and Opie. You who like what the Nuttings have done to the franchise since 1996 are not real fans.
P&P,
ReplyDeleteI never said YOU weren't a fan. Please show me where. I was responding to Sharky's off color, name calling post.
I've said before I like the columns you write and Cutch's today was right on the mark.
This all started when I asked why the usual 4-6 guys (not you, and you all know who you are) haven't been posting on SmizBlog. My post was half serious, as I enjoy it for the entertainment value and half facetious, as those 4-6 posters never say anything positive and they are running out of negative things to say without sounding completely stupid.
BTW, P&P, your fan resume is awesome. But I never questioned it.
Sharky,
ReplyDeleteWhat makes me all of the sudden a supporter? I've held at least a 25 game ticket plan since 1998? Because I didn't stomp my feet when they weren't winning? I wasn't happy with it, but any person can see that nothing could be done and still can't be done.
Nutting owns the team. Has so for 4-14 years. Yelling, kicking and screaming on a blog isn't going to change that. I pay taxes just like BFD, so yes, I, as all of the citizens, have a stake in this.
On top of that, the MLB system is broken. Sure, every year a small market team gets in the hunt, but not on a consistent basis.
I guess I'm an enabler going to the game all these years, but I can't help myself. I love the game, I love the Pirates and I love spending 25 days and nights with my Dad who is getting no younger. It's an entertainment choice, and I don't for one fleeting moment think of Bob Nutting when I renew my tickets each fall.
If that makes me a dbag A**hole as you said above, then beand me Massengil, bud.
Hey Fishie:
ReplyDeleteI hope you arent including me in the 4-6 posters who never say anything positive about the Pirates. I say plenty of positive things about them, just not about the FO.
As for my fan credentials, I have been a fan since 1969. I remember the great Pirate teams of the 70's, the dregs of the 80's, the hope of 1990-92, and the night mare since then.
I have always supported the players, even the ones who werent very good, because most of them gave good effort.
As for me not posting on the Smizblog, that has become a farce and a joke. Comments, and entire threads deleted, insults from Smiz and other posters, multiple ID posters having conversations with themselves............... why would I want to continue that? I post occasionally, but wont rejoin there til the crap stops. The crap doesnt appear to be stopping anytime soon, so I stay away. Not because you say certain people have venom towards the team.
By the way, I really dont care who questions my fan "credentials". I will put mine up against anyones. If you or anyone else dont like it, leave me alone, and I will cheer for the team as I see fit.
Have an awesome "Fishie" day !!
Oh, yeah, and GO BUCS !!!!
P&P,
ReplyDeleteOh now I see that Burress was the Cutch author, so I agree with you, Buress, about your post today.
And I do like many of yours too, P&P. ;)
Roger squared,
ReplyDeleteYou sir, also have a nice resume. And all, "Eat More Fish!" Its healty and delicious!
I meant healthy, LOL.
ReplyDeleteFish: It may be a meaningless and futile effort, but our goal here is to congregate our viewpoint and possibly, just maybe, affect some sort of change in the way the Pirates are run. So while I may not always agree with Sharky on his brusque style, I stand solidly, hand-in-hand with him as a compatriot in the substance of his arguments. And that is the following: The Nuttings are bad for this city, bad for its fans, and bad for baseball. And we are not afraid to stand up and say so, even now in the face of ridicule with the team playing a bit better, we here at the Mutiny will not stand down from that principled persuasion.
ReplyDeleteSo while other media outlets in the city may turn a page and now suck up to Nutting and his cronies, hoping to bask in some reflected praise and glory, we will not back down and change our stance, even if the winds of public opinion turn against us.
Why? Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with the way this ballclub is run, isn't there?
I respect your opinion, P&P. Hell, I even hope it works.
ReplyDeleteI've chosen to take the road that the Pirates are privately owned and the cheapskate owner has NO intention on selling the team. I have no love lost for the man and I do not support everything that he has done, as is stated by others. I've instead tried to embrace the game and as I always have since 1980 or so (I was six in 1979 and don't remember it).
Personally, I think that NH has done a FAIRLY good job given the circumstances. Some bad ones, some good ones, some with the jury still out. IMO, he deserves another 2 years to see this through.
FC is a complete liar, and I do not really support anything that he's done to date, with the exception of the NH hire, and like I said, the jury is still out on him.
I just can't understand why some Anti's can't say ANYTHING good about the team or FO. I for one can't stand the job our president is doing, but not everything he does is wrong. Same goes for the Pirates FO.
Just a simple' "Opie seems to have found a nice AAA pickup in Chris McKenry" or "Opie made a nice offseason acquisition with Kevin Correia" or "Opie seems to have found a good manager in Clint Hurdle"
You know what I mean. You have to admit that there are some posters that can't and won't even do that.
Here are my credentials if I really have to give them.
ReplyDeleteI was too young to remember Clemente (I was 4 when he died) and the first time I ever saw the 71 series was several weeks ago. I really got old enough to get into the Pirates during the mid 70's and was a huge Stargell and Parker fan.
I was there for the cocaine trials and then for the 90-92 playoff teams. Every time I see a retrospective of those teams it gives me chills. That was great baseball and a great team that should have made it to the series at least once.
I have also been there for all the horrible baseball for the last 18 years. I was even supportive of NH when they hired him. After the Nady trade I even went to Altoona just to see Tabata.
The bottom fell out for me in 2009. The players acquired in the Bay trade were looking horrible and the team was getting worse so instead of trying to improve, more salary dumps. I had it at that point and went full Anti. I have seen NH constantly make this team worse and I don't like it. I don't trust this current version of the FO and they have yet to give me any reason to trust them.
But because I don't see things they way you do somehow I am not a "real" fan or a "hater". Whatever. Go back to hating me because I don't agree with you. In the real world outside of the internet I don't know a single Pro. They only exist here in cyberworld.
But as for my posting style, I only respond in kind. Your post was you being a smartass and you got what you gave.
Sharky, you too, sir, have a nice3 resume.
ReplyDeleteGo back to hating you? I never left, truth be told, but that's why we all have an opinion. Makes the world go around.
As for not knowing any PRO's I'm not sre what you mean. PRO FO? I would agree with that. Outside of Fedral Street offices, they may not exist.
As far as PRO-Piraters? Are you living in a cave? We are everywhere. There were 100,000 of us in the stands over at PNC this weekend. ROOT sports ratings are up 15 percent this year. They are coming out of the woodwork.
And we love the hell out of what our Buccos are doing this year. You should come on board Sahrky. It's alot of fun. You can go back to spouting venom if they fall apart or in the offseason, but come on, hop on with us. It's a party brutha.
Fish: I think we can find some middle ground here. You can admit that you don’t like Nutting, but don’t see a point in bemoaning his ownership at every turn as a fan. I can admit that although I do not agree ideologically with the way the ballclub is run, I can, and indeed must, pragmatically give credit to how they have gotten a lot of production out of an under-funded, under-talented club this season.
ReplyDeleteI have gone over some of my least favorite moves by the club since Oppie took over, so in the name of respectful discourse, here are what I consider his best moves:
1)Signing Garrett Jones as a minor league free agent
2)Hiring Clint Hurdle
3)Getting Jeff Karstens, Ross Ohlendorf, Daniel McCutchen, and Jose Tabata from the Yankees for D’Maso Marte and Xavier Nady
4) Drafting tons of high strikeout potential power arms at the top of the draft
5) Bringing the words “Latin America” back into our scouting departments vocabulary.
Pucks,
ReplyDeleteCompletely agree and I, in turn, list my opinion of worst FO moves including (yes, us Pro Piraters know they've made plenty):
1. Jason Bay debacle
2. Operation pierogi
3. The misspelling of Maz's name. Good grief, how does that happen!?
4. Secret extensions of Opie and R2D2.
5. Being forced to dump ARAM for a bag of 10 year old big league chew and a fungo bat. Although, I still won't fully admit that BN was really in charge then. But I don't want to bicker.
The team does appear to be heading in the right direction. This certainly could be the Royals of 2006, just a one year aberration. I hope not but you never know.
They must do what was promised though and that's spend money when the time is RIGHT. If that doesn't happen (sign Cutch long term, get a high priced bat now, or at least in the offseason, etc.) then I will be going away too. This is the last time I will be lied to.
Like BFD says this is the 4th five year plan, and it's my last under this ownership.
Lets Go BUCS.
Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I found today's discussion surprisingly cathartic. Heres hoping we can use this as a foundation for reasonable debate in the future rather than just going back to hurling insults online at each other.
ReplyDeleteFish- I will do my part by defending you as a reasonable Pro. Since you brought this back in a roundabout way to the subject of the original post by Burress, what is your opinion of what would be a fair deal, and the best deal the Pirates can expect to get for locking McCutchen up long term?
P&P,
ReplyDeleteI'm thinking a 6 year deal for 60 million sounds about right. I think that would buy out 2 years of free agency. I think he's got one more year (2012) of total control and then 3 years of arbitration eligibility. Then that would buy 2 years of free agency.
If thats true, then 4,6,8,12,14,16 MM for the 6 years would add up to 60MM. If he only has just the three years of arb. left then I would favor a 5/54MM, contract similar to above.
I could be way off base, high or low, with my thoughts.
What are the opinions of the rest of you guys? What contract do you think is fair abd equitable for both sides?
P&P,
ReplyDeleteCathartic. Perfect description of today. I, personally, feel surprisingly cleaned out and refreshed.
LOL
I would certainly take 6 more years of Cutch if the Bucs can get it. He is one of the better players to com thru here since the early 90s and now has proven himself pretty well to be at least a 4 tool superstar talent as Burress noted. If the Pirates do have total control for 1 more season, the time for them to act leverage wise is right now. If he gets into next year without a new deal, and continues to build on this solid resume, good luck getting him and his representatives to give back two years of FA status for anything less than $15M/per. Hell, if they want to draw a hardline, there is nothing stopping Cutch's agent from even signing away a single season of unrestricted free agency, so I realize the ball is not 100% in the Pirates hands here. I think 6 years, for 60M guaranteed right now may be something Cutch would considering banking right now, so the terms would be possible, but I have a question about the structure of the deal. I noticed alot of contracts in baseball escalate as a guy heads toward the tail end, but does the deal HAVE to go in that directions? Would it be possible for the Bucs (and other small market teams) to offer a FRONT loaded deal with lots of signing bonus, cash, and easily obtainable incentives in the in the 1st year of a new deal? It seems to me that such an agreement could be desireable for both side: Cutch gets a whole helluva more money right away than he would to wait of free agency, and the Pirates get to take the big hit right now, and have him locked in at a much more reasonable rate in future years when (hopefully) they are looking to deal with other guys in arbitration and maybe adding pieces to make a legit run at something. Plus, its insurance against mangement themself being tempted to deal him off the final two years, when they are getting the most value, or getting stuck with an albatross contract they have to pay other teams to relieve them of, ala Jason Kendall. So what say you to a front loaded deal for Cutch?
ReplyDeleteThat sounds like a great deal for both sides, and I really like the idea of paying more now while we have some money to blow, all the while saving more later for signing other players or free agents.
ReplyDeleteI've never heard a deal structured like that, for whatever reason. First time for everything, though.
I would be onboard with it.
Something to keep in mind here guys.............. this offseason, there will be a new CBA. We dont know what changes will occur that may, or may not affect the Pirates ability to pay this kind of long-term money.......... especially if there are significant changes in revenue-sharing.
ReplyDeleteJust a little food for thought.
You see those kind of 'front-loaded' deals in hockey, where a guy will take a big check up front and give back some years on the cheap late in the deal. Maybe the reason you don't get that in MLB is the players union in baseballs refusal to give ANY breaks to the owners...
ReplyDeletePucks,
ReplyDeleteYep, the MLB union is way too strong, so it probably won't happen, but I think it would be great.
Roger squared,
That would not be good if the revenue sharing changes. I know Nutbag has been pocketing it as profit in the past, but if he keeps his promise, we will certainly need that money to keep Cutch and others.
Andrew McCutchen is the best player that the Pirates have drafted since Barry Bonds. He's that good IMO.
ReplyDeleteThis is Dog.
ReplyDeleteSharky,
I'm not Fish Monger. You have incorrectly called at least ten people me. Of course that is only a fraction of the mistakes you make about the Pirates. You might be the least intelligent Pirate fan this side of DAQ. I would love to embarrass you on this blog like I did on the Smizik blog. Bring it on bitch.
DOG